Drum machines, metronomes and a band

R.I.P.C.L.B. · Sea Monkey Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 11

I can play with a drum machine or metronome yet when it comes to playing with a live band I can't keep time. I seem to get thrown off by the guitar player . I have yet to figure that out why I get so thrown off by the guitar player. Maybe its cause I am a guitar player turned bass player. but can anyone give me any suggestions on how not to get so thrown off by the guitar player?
_________________
Change is inevitable, except from vending machines.

ubermoose · Kitten Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 145 Location: Michigan

I would listen to the guitar player for intonation cues and such, but concerning beat, I would suggest locking in with the drummer. I personally find it much easier to rhymically recognize and respond to what the drummer is doing. Guitarists, of course, have a very important part in the band, and they need an integral sense of rhythm; however, they are not the chief source of it. Though following them for rhythm can work, again, I think perhaps the drummer may offer clearer guidance.

If possible, see if you can set up a jam session with just the drummer to flesh out the timing, and work your way up from there. Then, when the guitars are added, you might not feel so lost.
_________________
Mind you, moose bites can be pretty nasty...
-Monty Python

Apostolis · Tadpole Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 26 Location: Greece

It seems that you are not studying enough with the metronome or you are doing it the wrong way.Snap your fingers to count 1 and 3 and tap your feet on 2 and 4. Do it lot of times in order to get the FEELING.

Find the meters (1,2,3,4) in your OWN bass line (the one that you are playing). When you know that in 1 you are playing C# (for example) and in 3 you are playing F it will be much easier for you to keep up with your own time.

Definitly lock in with the drummer.Forget about the guitar player, he's the one who should be "looking" for you.
The drummer is the time machine in ALL kinds of music and they use some common ways to keep up with time.
In rock music they hit the snare drum in 2 and 4 most of the times.
In jazz they use some cymbal in 1 and 3.
(This applies to the majority of the songs of each music style, not ALL of them)
Watch out for what your drummer is playing so when you hear the 1 or 2 you will know where you stand.

Neil Gray · Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:12 am Post subject:

Yes. What Apostolis is saying is correct. And what the Moose says also rings very true.

I think at the end of the day, you need to know your stuff backwards. I know for myself that when I play any of our songs in my band, then I can pick it up anywhere with less than a semi-quaver's hesitation. Same with the guitarist, same with the drummer, brass, keys, percussion, vocals... anyone.

Why?

Because we practice, and we love it. We get a buzz from the music we play, and it's not a chore.

Mention the problem you're having next band practice. By saying that, I don't mean storm in there wielding your bass like a battle axe screaming "I can't play with you! You're a lousy guitarist who throws me off!" Calmly say that there are parts that you're not getting, and that you'd like to play with each instrument individually to get a better understanding of what each of them is doing.

You'll be surprised at how much this can open up your playing. You go from not getting it to absolutely creaming it.

Give it a go, but I reckon it's all in the community of the band. If you all get along musically, then you should just FEEL the direction. If you don't, then work on it.
_________________
Alright!
Who siphoned the blood out of my cat?

SteveJazz · Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:31 am Post subject:

Tell your guitarist to play his rhythm parts by himself so you can hear them. Keep a hanky handy as he will probably start to sweat bullets. Then have him play his parts with only the drummer to see how they fit together. Playing proper rhythm guitar is a lost art, practiced by few, and ignored by most, who are simply waiting to play their latest memorized hot lick, and jump around the stage like a deranged chicken that has just been maced.

The largest failing of bar bands is not leaving any S P A C E in the arrangements. Every song is just a big wall of noise, with the vocals and the solos fighting to be heard over the confusion.

The silence in your arrangements is the most important part of the music.

SJ Cool

_________________
Current gig: http://www.philbrownguitar.com

Neil Gray · Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 2:29 am Post subject:

Whoa... I've seen the way!
That was beautiful SJ!

And very true. I would listen to this piece of knowledge over what all have said thus far. In fact, I have taken it on board myself.
_________________
Alright!
Who siphoned the blood out of my cat?

SteveJazz · Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 9:25 am Post subject:

Neil: You already knew about space in your mind, which is why this hit home for you.

All: Think about funk bass lines without space. Pretty rare, it's the syncopation and space that make a line funky. Syncopation creates holes. The next time you come up with a line for a tune, look for regular places to lay out for up to half a measure. This will turn heads like you won't believe if you do it right. You will also make your drummer sound like Gawd, assuming your drummer is solid, and doesn't try to fill every time you lay out. This will also pressure your guitarist(s) or keyboardist to play something meaningful, heh!

More tricks with space for those learning how to play with others:

Kill your note just before the snare shot that usually hits on 2 and 4. Leave a little hole for that snare shot. Suddenly the drummer (and the groove) relaxes, since there is no need to break a stick trying to get the snare heard on stage.

Every once in a while, don't play a note on "1." Do this every two or four measures, and--instant funky-ness.

DON'T, puh-leeeze DON'T play along with your drummer's 8th, 16th or 32nd note fills. Play straight through or half time, or lay out when the drummer fills, and implore the drummer to play straight when you fill.

The worst tip-off of a amateurish band is when the whole band goes "dit-dit-dit-dit-dit-dit-dit-dit-dit all together like a machine gun every 8 bars. This also causes the tempo to rush. Create actual spots in the tunes when each of you will play your fills. Play no fills early in the tune, simple fills in the middle, and play the most complicated fill once, very near the end of the tune. Arrangements, what a concept!

These ideas are worth experimenting with, but do it at practice first if you aren't used to the concept.

Players fill all spaces due to fear, fear of losing the groove, and having everything fall apart. It's a habit that starts when you are learning. As you get better at holding the groove together, you forget to leave the

S P A C E S ! ! !

Advanced playing requires that you break that habit. Less is more.

SJ Cool

_________________
Current gig: http://www.philbrownguitar.com