II - V - I progression

UFO · Tadpole Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 27

Can somebody give me a good explanation of how this chord progression works and/or where I can get more layman's info?

I've been playing for 17 years, have a decent theory knowledge and can read music, however I haven't really played much jazz.

I always hear about the II-V-I but haven't gotten a really good, concise explanation how it works (other than it involves those chords). I always get an explanation about the circle of fifths, etc. I just really want to know some practical knowledge about how to use it.

Any help appreciated.
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flaviu · Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 5:20 pm Post subject:

I think the II V I progression is much talked about but not explained...

For me it's a way of instead just throwing a chord there, throwing a II V before, just to harmonically explain where the song is going... and a great way to solve a harmonic dead end : P

improvising over the II V I may be very simple, improvisating only over the I chord, since all the chords are from the same scale (Dm7, g7, Cmaj7)... or you can isolate each chord, and use some II V tipical phrases... I'm actually at the moment studying the Charlie Parker Essential Jazz Lines book, whick covers a lot of II V soloing...

I don't know if you're already past this... but it's still good information : ]
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Ninestring · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:12 am Post subject:

Everything in 12 tone music has an order. Everything makes sense ,but it isn't always presented in a way that makes sense.

ii-V-I is the engine that makes all music work. ii ,or the two chord is the triad built on the second degree of the major scale. In the key of C ,it would be d minor.

Usually , you would use a d minor 7 chord ( d-f-a-c). The way that "chord gravity " works is that a ii chord ,or a ii mi7 will be followed by a V7 chord (G7).

These two chords define the key of C. When ever you see D mi 7 G7 ,you know you are in the key of C. A four chord Fmajor or F maj. 7 can replace a ii mi7 chord. This depends on the style of music being played.

When you play f maj. 7 or Dmi7 ,it sounds natural to go to a G7 chord ,then resolve it to C maj.

There are 119 chord progressions that use the motion created by these chords.

Try learning iim7 -V7-I maj. 7 in all keys.
Ami7 or Cmaj. 7 -D7-Gmaj.
Emi 7 or G maj 7 -A7-Dmaj. 7 etc.

more advanced progressions add other diatonic chords ,such as : C maj.-Ami7 (vi mi7 ) -dmi7-G7

Many jazz tunes go through many ii-v-I- progressions like
emi7 -a7-ebmi7-Ab mi7 etc.
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audiowkstation · Sea Monkey Joined: 21 Aug 2003 Posts: 13

Jeeze..I thought their were over 140...Just messing with you 9str.

Actually, I use old Mingus and play to it. I use a wav editor so I can set up a repeat and nail them and learn what he did. Some of it is not a natural vibe so you must pound on it until you get the feel...then it is easier to go anyhere around that vibe...Maybe more than 140 actually...like 4 thousand..
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Ninestring · Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:06 pm Post subject: 119 chord prog

The 119 chord progressions come from music educator Dick Grove. He really defined the concept that everything is ii-V-I ,there are nine chord families and 119 chord progressions. Any of the "thousands" of chord progressions you mention are going to be very close to one of the 119.

My point is that all this has already been defined and simplified. There is no guessing in tonal music . If you know these essential elements ,you can play anything you hear as you hear it.
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Ninestring · Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:18 pm Post subject:

Some progressions are:

I-vi-ii -V7 Cmaj-Ami-Dmi-G7

I-iiimi-IV-V Cmaj.-emi-F maj-Gmaj.

I maj-IV maj.-iii mi- biii07-iimi7-V7 Cmaj-Fmaj-emi7-Eb diminished 7-dmi7-G7 -C maj.

You hear songs from the 1940's to today's songs ,you will hear that different styles use different chord progressions and some chords are substitutions for others to give a tune a certain "flavor"

If you play the above examples ,you will probably have a number of songs come to mind. This helps you to be aware of the changes so you will recognize them when you hear them.

My friend was amazed I could play along with the "Three Doors Down" CD with out ever hearing it before because all the chord changes were part of the 119 chord progressions.

If you want to know more,send me an email.
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Garry Goodman
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40 years playing bass guitar

flaviu · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:55 am Post subject:

hey Garry
where can I get information about these progressions?
is there a book?
Thanks!
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Guest · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:40 am Post subject: books

Hey Flaviu

The books were written by Dick Grove and they are "The Encyclopedia of applied Harmony and Theory" (I think) volumes i-iii. You may have to do a search and look for Grove School of Music. His step son ,Dana Rasch had taken over the school after Dick passed away. I don't know if those books are still in print. If they are not ,I may be able to copy the sections on the 119 chord progressions.

Guest · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:41 am Post subject:

I forgot to log in so I am "Guest"

Garry

flaviu · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:26 am Post subject:

How those chord progressions work? Are those like combinations between Dominant , subdominant and tonic?

Have you memorized progression by progression or have you just learned how it works?

thnks
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Flaviullllll

Guest · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:32 pm Post subject:

Hey! How are you doing?

I think I first sat down with them and started playing through them- wheen I hear C maj.///A mi. /// Dmi /// G7 ///c I thought "oh yeah, I know that one! " Same wirh Fmaj//Bb maj7 // A min 7 / ab dim. 7 / G mi 7 / C7/ F maj7. You find that most tunes use the same progressions and rarley is there a real deviation . You are thinking in terms of I-Vi-ii-V7-I as opposed to any particular key . This helps you transpose instantly.

flaviu · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:46 am Post subject:

Yeah, I like to think that way, in numerals, for transposition.
I was working with some country artists from the city, and I had some tunes to play. Suddendly he said a particular tune was going to be played in Ab, not Bb,
Luckly I did those numerals, and it was easy to transpose. : )

What you did then was memorize the sound of each progression, was it?
I have ear training classes at my college, and I'm studying this stuff. Recognizing sounds mentally is nice : )
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Ninestring · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:59 pm Post subject:

yes- you get to know the ones you know anyway like C-A minor-f-G7

or like Boosa nove vamp 11mi7 (b5) - V7 (b9)- I major 7
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40 years playing bass guitar

Ninestring · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject:

it helps to clarify ii-v -I. you know the four part chord built on top of the first note of a scale ,is the I chord. In C major ,that is a C major 7 ,or a c tih e ,g and b stacked on top. the next note in a C major scale is D. the notes stacked on top of that second note of the scale starting with the D ,and F,A ,C on top making a D minor 7 chord . The fifth note of the C major scale is G. and the notes B,D,and F are stacked up on top of the G Note to make a G7 chord. The D minor7 ,G7 and C major 7 chords DEFINE THE key of C. ANYtime you see a G7 chord ,you know right then ,you are in the key of C.

ii-V-I ,or dminor 7-G7-C Major 7 make the momentum that makes music work in the key of C. THe dminor 7 can be replaced by the four chord ,F major 7 to make IV_V-I. How many songs use these chords ?

In the "Real Book" or other jazz sheet music ,you will often see ii-V_I In minor or say in the key of A melodic minor ,you will see B minor 7 (b5)-E7 (+9) followed by A minor 7. That's also ii-V-I ,but the chord stacks are different in minor .

One thing that can be confusing is that back in the key of C with d minor 7 -G7-C major 7 you have other ii and I chords. A ,the sixth degree of a C major scale has c,e, and g stacked up on it making an AMi7 chord ,which is a ii chord in FUNCTION . That F major 7 four chord FUNCTIONS AS A one chord ,and even that B minor 7 flat 5 built from the 7th degree can funtion as either a V chord ,or a ii chord in minor.

What we need to get from all of this is that any time you see a C maj, 7 , C , C6 ,C6/9 Cmaj.9 ,C major 13 + 11 -they are all I chords in C major. Any G7 ,G9 ,Gii, G13 are all V chords and D minor ,D minor 7 ,D minor ( , D minor 11 are all ii chords.

EVERY CHORD FUNTIONS AS EITHER A II ,A V ,OR A I CHORD.

hope this helps
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Garry Goodman
http://garrygoodman.com
40 years playing bass guitar

Creeping Death · Tadpole Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 15 Location: Oregon